AMY GOODMAN: And your feelings at that time, Katharine? I mean, thats why MartinI remember Martin and Ed. We can all have a view on Saddam Hussein and whether he should be deposed or not. Oh, yeah. KATHARINE GUN: Oh, yes, absolutely. KATHARINE GUN: Oh, no. Your question about now, this is all terribly relevant. Katharine 'Kay' Griggs knows what it's like to have a gun pointed in her face. There is a small group of us, she says. I wish I could have written that scene. ED VULLIAMY: Yes. I said, I think Ive got a scoop, Martin. I was the U.S. correspondent indeed, but very soon I was in Najaf, Nasiriyah, Fallujah, unembedded, watching this bloody carnage, thisthe implosion of this country. Who is her husband? And yeah, it was, AMY GOODMAN: And what did you think, whenbefore you had seen Katharine and met her, what did you imagine she would be like, this young woman, 27-year-old woman of conscience, who. I think youll find hes hiding in plain sight. And there was a dramatic hush in the audience. As of 2019[update] she has lived in Turkey with her husband and daughter for several years. Katharine Teresa Gun (ne Harwood; born 1974) is a British linguist who worked as a translator for the Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ). However, Yasar could not be there for her trial as Gun, and her associates worried that his presence would turn Guns story into that of his as a refugee in Britain. I work for the British people. But a part of me thought: Damn we could have put the war on trial. I havent watched the films about either of them, she says. I think I found like the missing piece. Anyway, thats why the scene. Mr. Davies, in his book, has done more recently, AMY GOODMAN: And he said to you, Martin, at least in the film, This will jeopardize our access.. KATHARINE GUN: Yeah. And I had to thank her forI mean, you know, in totally selfish terms, helping me break the biggest story of my life. The love between Katharine and her husband, Yasar Gun, is undeniable, and the punishment they must to endure together is heart stopping. I think the number isand forgive me, I should have the figurethree-and-a-half thousand British and American soldiers, 37,000 wounded. Presumably the events mark a before and after in her life. It was a very big audience, lovely, lovely theater. AMY GOODMAN: The people Martin was fighting to get this story out. And then I went on to interview Martin and Ed and then Ben Emmerson, the lawyer. Katharine Gun is the Most Important Whistleblower You've Never Heard of. The last few hectic days have left her relieved and happy, she says, but completely uncertain as to her future. Consider donating here. MARTIN BRIGHT: Yeah, who wrote the memo. And they said they would try their best. AMY GOODMAN: Ed Vulliamy, you were the U.S. correspondent for The Observer. And I didnt want to have a record. AMY GOODMAN: The horror of what you did not succeed in preventing, though, which was the deaths of so many in Iraq, and that continues today, but you certainly touched the conscience of not just the nation, but the world, in what you did, talking about what womanwhat one woman could do. Enter Katharine Gun. But I felt this information was explosive, it needed to get out. 2023 Cinemaholic Inc. All rights reserved. AMY GOODMAN: So, before the time of the trial, Katharine, youthey have clamped down on you. Her father had studied Chinese at Durham University and now teaches at Tunghai University in the city of Taichung, central Taiwan. She becomes the corporate sister-daughter, she dives into the power suit and high-waisted pants or Katharine Hepburn moment. And nor do newspaper stories. And he didnt come back out again. This is her story. [5] While waiting to hear whether she would be charged, Gun embarked on a postgraduate degree course in global ethics at the University of Birmingham. He gets more and more pressure from Blair. At the time, Katharine Gun was working for Britains Government Communications Headquarters, known as GCHQ. The film stars Ma. Gun told Bright in 2013, "There seems to be this blas attitude - the spying goes on . We were mostly in our mid-20s, so it was the usual stuff, who is going out with who. Katharine Gun (ne Harwood), 47, is married to Yasar Gn, a Turkish Kurd, with whom she has a 13-year old daughter. I mean, this has been going on for a number of years, and it always sort of ended up kind of petering out, so, GAVIN HOOD: Other people had approached you before. GAVIN HOOD: They failed. And he says, I need toso, Im interviewing Ben in a pizza shop, right? I had made a film called Eye in the Sky, with the producer Ged Doherty, and we were looking for another project to do together. We are defending ourselves. Katharine Gun (ne Harwood), 47, is married to Yasar Gn, a Turkish Kurd, with whom she has a 13-year old daughter. [10] Her case became a cause clbre among activists, and many people stepped forward to urge the government to drop the case. Now, the defense of necessity is usually used in very more simple circumstances. And Mr. Ahmed is now the editorial director of the BBC, the revered BBC. In a way, President Trump has been a gift for the previous president, George W. Bush, because it has really rehabilitated his reputation. And now you go back into work. All rights reserved. And they had already taken him down into the custody suite, which is, by the way, where I had been before, Gun revealed. The implosion continues. The film -- quite plausibly -- depicts the charges being dropped against Gun for the simple reason that the British government feared . We met in London. So, in the film, when the director of public prosecutions says to Ben Emmerson, trying to wiggle out of it, Listen, it wasnt my decision to prosecute. Thats actually true. A New Film Tells Her Story, 15 Years Later: How U.K. Whistleblower Katharine Gun Risked Everything to Leak a Damning Iraq War Memo, Links to news stories (20032006) about Katharine Gun, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Katharine_Gun&oldid=1149317616, Short description is different from Wikidata, Articles containing potentially dated statements from 2020, All articles containing potentially dated statements, Articles containing potentially dated statements from 2019, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, This page was last edited on 11 April 2023, at 13:29. GAVIN HOOD: Ben Emmerson. And the other way is the good, old-fashioned self-defense. Be consistent. GAVIN HOOD: Yes, strong women. I think our problem now, and I think this applies on both sides of the Atlantic, is that we have populist politicians for whom that doesnt matter. And looking back, its easy to be nostalgic about how things were with Bush and Blair, because it looks like these people were easier to hold to account. The relationships that form as a result of Gun's acting are quite inspiring. And I justI just determined to deny it. So her moral certainty was rooted in those formative experiences? We do not accept funding from advertising, underwriting or government agencies. I think. As of 2020[update] Gun lives in Turkey and Britain. Im sure that what Katharine felt when in 2010 we found out that Lord Goldsmith had declared the war, in his advice, illegal, must have been pretty painful for Katharine to hear, as it was for me when Congress said, I think around 2004, '05, we knew, actually, there were no weapons of mass destruction. Maybe there will be sympathy.. Youre a bit, AMY GOODMAN: So, there is an uproar. But to discover that it was such a young and such a junior employee was extraordinary to us, yeah. As well as illuminating Guns story, though, the film gives what was, by any standards, one of the great scoops of recent British journalism the credit that is long overdue. You know, banks of civil servants couldnt do that. For the American gamer, see, Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations, United Nations Security Council and the Iraq War, "Whistleblowerin Katharine Gun - "Ich frchtete, sie knnten meine Gedanken lesen", "The US spymaster, the whistleblower, and the secret email she exposed", "Profile: Katherine Gun, Iraq war wistleblower", "Katharine Gun: Ten years on what happened to the woman who revealed dirty tricks on the UN Iraq war vote? But, I mean, I ended up being a whistleblower myself within that organization. Gun was asked by Special Branch officers why she had chosen to act as she had. It was shown in the Castro Theatre. Shes just wearing her jeans and jumpers, you know, to work. Don't worry, we won't share or sell your information. She was arrested and charged with breach of the Official Secrets Act. Most people do. And if you are working in government, make sure that you are really clued up about what is going on, and think very hard where your responsibility lies.. Well, if Bush and Blair could have got a U.N. resolution, they would have had perfect cover for going to Iraq without having to bring up the WMD, the weapons of mass destruction, argument, because the whole weapons of mass destruction argument is the self-defense, that they needed a legalyou know, you do want to be going to war legally. Counted amongst the likes of Edward Snowden, Julian Assange, and John Kiriakou is Katharine Gun, a whistleblower whose actions revealed the shocking underbelly of international politics and also inspired a big-budget movie that introduced many to the issue. They were just going to pick him up, and took him out. [12] The Guardian newspaper had reported plans to drop the case the previous week. The film, Official Secrets, comes out officially at the end of August. So, GCHQ had been aware of this for over 24 hours, and they were waiting for everybody to come back into work on Monday, and they were prepared. MARTIN BRIGHT: We didI tell you what, though, we did feel that we had failed. KATHARINE GUN: And yeah, becauseanyway, he was going in every week to basically prove that he was still resident or that they could pinpoint where he was. GAVIN HOOD: What she discovers saysis a request from the NSA to GCHQ to hack, bug the private communications and the office communications of U.N. Security Council members, in particular the nonpermanent members, the more junior members. Yes and no. Soon after, they moved to Turkey in 2011, and for the most part, the family has stayed away from the public . Then we see her become this woman who's starting to really know herself and starting to try and identify her own feminine being and trying to find her own place in the boardroom as a woman, as an entity, as a sister and . The day before the trial, Gun's defence team had asked the government for any records of legal advice about the lawfulness of the war that it had received during the run-up to the war. Gun is on Mondays episode of the Guardian podcast Today in Focus, Original reporting and incisive analysis, direct from the Guardian every morning. Attempts were made by the authorities to deport her husband, who grew disillusioned with Britain. That whole period undermined the judicial process, it undermined the parliamentary process, and it undermined the media and press and the intelligence service. We are all of us living, she believes, with the consequences of that. Something like. I could not get it in. No need for weapons of mass destruction arguments. ED VULLIAMY: At the time, yes, the editor and the political. We rely on contributions from our viewers and listeners to do our work. My marriage to my husband was very new at that juncture, and he had a very unstable status in the UK. Of course I did, yes. The little-told story of British intelligence whistleblower Katharine Gun leaves a trail of unanswered questions worth probing, even 16 years later, . Ben Emmerson is. Given my experience I would want to hear what happened from the horses mouth, I think.. So, you know, it doesnt end, as Martin said. And at some point, with great respect to Lord Goldsmith, he caves. GAVIN HOOD: Well, for me, what I love about the story is actually, on the one hand, its got this huge global political relevance, and it resonates still today. It is not often that a persons character is revealed in two sentences. Gavin Hoods 2019 film Official Secrets is the thrilling political drama that explores the events that followed British linguist Guns 2003 media leak. During the season 5 finale of American Idol, Katharine McPhee was named the runner-up against winner Taylor Hicks. Gun thinks she might speak out more considering the current state of political affairs and massive citizen involvement in sociopolitical issues. She urged "those in a position to do so to disclose information which relates to this planned aggression; legal advice, meetings between the White House and other intelligence agencies, assessments of Iran's threat level (or better yet, evidence that assessments have been altered), troop deployments and army notifications. In 2003, she leaked top-secret information to The Observer, concerning a request by the United States for compromising intelligence on diplomats from member states of the 2003 Security Council.The diplomats were due to vote on a second United . [5] While at work at GCHQ on 31 January 2003, Gun read an email from Frank Koza, the chief of staff at the "regional targets" division of the American signals intelligence agency, the National Security Agency.[7]. Film-makers generally like to glamorise newspaper offices, making them All the Presidents Men hothouses of high-level argument and intrigue. Katharine Gun and Martin Bright could be forgiven for fielding Hollywood's overtures with a degree of skepticism. Gun has spoken at the 51Fest and conferences arranged by organizations such as the Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS). MARTIN BRIGHT: You know, I mean, you dont want to get too conspiratorial about this. Were on the set. The argument was then subsumed by the war. GAVIN HOOD: Theres an outrage. KATHARINE GUN: to police custody, yes, and kept overnight in a police cell. When he didnt come out, I was panicking, you know, and I ran inside. KATHARINE GUN: Need I say more? Now, that doesnt mean we shouldnt try to hold them to account. Youre breaking the speed limit. And towards the end of the Q&A session, an elderly gentleman put up his hand and said, Im very interested in the issue of Frank Koza. KATHARINE GUN: Well, I mean, its terrifying. AMY GOODMAN: Whatever you tried to do didnt succeed. So I tried to look for work. Its all so resonant. That was in this moment, moment by moment, as the story evolves, what would it feel like if you were in her shoes. Considering the support it has received from its central character and the journalist who helped get the story published, 'Official Secrets' is an accurate dive into the events that happened. So, where is Gun now? GAVIN HOOD: This amazing lawyer, with great dignityElizabeth Wilmshurst, whos in the movie, Ralph Fiennes playing Ben Emmersonhas the cup of tea with her. I was called up on Tuesday. But, you know, it. Full Interview: Frank Mugisha on New Anti-, Former Guantnamo Prisoners Ask Biden to Let Them Keep Art They Made to Escape Inhumane Conditions, Part 1: In 2003, This U.K. Whistleblower Almost Stopped the Iraq Invasion. I mean, obviously, at that point, then felt very sorry that someone had been arrested, but it was a huge relief at the time. AMY GOODMAN: The networks, like Fox, and The Drudge Report, CNN refused to interview you, saying that this couldnt be a real memo because, unfortunately, your newspaper translated it into British. Of course he does. AMY GOODMAN: So, and we want to get to all that, but nowwe want to get to all that, but right now youre showing this film around the country. AMY GOODMAN: Well, explain that. Her whistleblowing was not enough to change the path of history, of course, and her last-gasp act of courage was all but forgotten in the brutal "shock and awe" of war. And that mattered, because, for all their faults, it seems to me that Tony Blair and George Bush understood that if they were caught out in a lie, that was a problem for them. [20] After the charges against her were dropped in 2004, she found it difficult to find a new job. But anyway. I was teaching Mandarin in the local college in Cheltenham. I denied it. I mean, youre talking about the editorial leadership of The Observer, the editor-in-chief. Laggies. Hood uses chemistry among each character to bring them to life. Gun is a singular presence, and she answers with characteristic care, speaking slightly haltingly, weighing her words. Shes beginning to understand the issues, but she hasnt seen it yet, Gun said in 2019 when her daughter was 11-years-old. How often does she go through that fateful weekend, where she wrestled with her conscience after seeing the memo? You know, I felt vindicated. I thought you said youre sick. And I said, I need to talk to you. And so we went into a small room, and I just said, I did it. And then she put her arm around me and went, Oh, Katharine. And then I burst out crying. AMY GOODMAN: Martin, you went on to work with Tony Blair, didnt you? westgate church staff,

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